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Awesome, Amazing, Astounding! AAA all the way --This has been reported in the NY Times, Reuters, Boston, the Seattle Times-- and over Newsvine, and blogged, so this is no isolated, insignificant report. oOo
JERUSALEM — 07-05-08 A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days. oOo
If such a messianic description really is there, it will contribute to a developing re-evaluation of both popular and scholarly views of Jesus, since it suggests that the story of his death and resurrection was not unique but part of a recognized Jewish tradition at the time. oOo
The tablet, probably found near the Dead Sea in Jordan according to some scholars who have studied it, is a rare example of a stone with ink writings from that era — in essence, a Dead Sea Scroll on stone. oOo
Of course, it bears some relation to the many pre-Jesus writings (called Apochropha) that b/c of their mystical/wild claims and myth-legend mix of stories, are not considered a true part of the bible.
That said, I can't wait to see what comes of this find... oOo Certainly more value to come of this than questions about the Shroud of Turin, IMHO.
oOo But I don't get how this could be shocking to Christians— "a challenge to the uniqueness of their theology." “This should shake our basic view of Christianity... "
" [the written tablet] suggests that the story of his death and resurrection was not unique but part of a recognized Jewish tradition at the time." [! Just like the writings of OT prophets, who *talked about* thingsbefore they happened? ]oOo
Thus, if true, it would go to show that a wild "story" about Jesus dying and rising again wasn't just "made up" by him or his crazy disciples! oOo oOo
The NY Times article also has this *Incredible statement* (again, if the reporting of this interview is true), that the scholar Israel Knohl says:
"...such a suffering messiah is very different from the traditional Jewish image of the messiah as a triumphal, powerful descendant of King David. [? OK mostly, but what about in Isaiah?]
“This should shake our basic view of Christianity...
[Huh? --shouldn't this shake our basic understanding of JUDAISM!?]
“Resurrection after three days becomes a motif developed before Jesus, which runs contrary to nearly all scholarship. [meaning, that most scholars have thought there were no pre-Jesus resurrection ideas in Judaism]. What happens in the New Testament was adopted by Jesus and his followers based on an earlier messiah story.” oOo oOo
oOo [ WOW!! Yes it is understood that there were ideas, speculations, even stories circulated, oOo about possible messiah-figures (living or legendary), before Christ.] oOo
How does this shake our basic view of christianity? Whose basic view?oOo The uniqueness of Jesus and christianity has never been in the *ideas* , oOo though the bible often presents a revelation and understanding of truth, and God, that is not found anywhere else. oOo
So read this again:oOo oOo
"What happens in the New Testament" ( meaning: what happened in real life - the events that really occurred, recorded by eyewitness / participants ),oOo
"was adopted by Jesus and his followers based on an earlier messiah story.” ( = supposedly they were able to get him really killed and live again after 3 days, by physically living-out the "messiah screenplay! " )
People! The Matrix and Star Trek are Not Real! oOo Its one thing to tell a good story. Quite another impossibility to in fact: * Make events in your life and those of the people around you * actually Happen! - in exactly the way the prevailing "tradition" says it will. oOo oOo
oOo [ Unless: you're a great Controller of people and events ... And all the disciples would have been Supreme Actors to get citizens, soldiers and the Power Brokers to pull off such a flawless execution of this complicated plot! ]oOo oOo
No one can cause their own death and live to tell about it! You would surely be Completely Dead after 2 to 3 days. oOo
- - - - - - - - - - - And who would purposely have themselves killed in order to fabricate a story of resurrection - that could be disproven easily by bringing out your lifeless body?
Even with suicide, you can't manipulate the Outcome. By definition, suicide means you give up control of your life, and what people do with your corpse after you're dead. At that point it's out of your hands, literally.
And no one has super powers to make themselves alive again. What about the people who knew you were dead, and now they see you claiming to be living again? Sure, I'd be a fool to believe you on That One! That silly rumor would die out in about 2 weeks. . .
So it's stupid to think that Jesus had in mind his own "murder/suicide" at the hands of the Romans - to get the Jews to make him a "posthumous messiah" or some such thing - and rise up to revolt!
Besides, that's not how the messiah story Goes - as the scholars of this new discovery say was "part of a recognized Jewish tradition at the time." [!]
It would be impossible for Jesus to live out a story about his life, instead of just living his life. (Like the rest of us.) He couldn't control how he would be killed, stay dead and then live again, no matter how long it was, no matter how forcefully anyone could tell a "messiah story". - - - - - - - - - - -
oOo He didn't just say the word, repeat an affirmation, or speak some "mumbo-jumbo and presto" suddenly he's alive again...or did he? oOo oOo
So, again, How does this shake our basic view of christianity? Whose basic view?oOo
From the NY Times report: Mr. Knohl, the scholar at Hebrew University, notes that "in the Gospels, Jesus makes numerous predictions of his suffering and New Testament scholars [sic] say such predictions must have been written in by later followers* because there was no such idea * present in his day.
But there was, he said, and "Gabriel's Revelation" shows it. oOo
"[Jesus' ] mission is that he has to be put to death by the Romans to suffer so his blood will be the sign for redemption to come," Knohl said. "This is the sign of the son of Joseph. oOo This is the conscious view of Jesus himself.oOo oOo
This gives the Last Supper an absolutely different meaning. To shed blood is not for the sins of people but to bring redemption to Israel."[!]oOo oOo
oOo The uniqueness of Jesus and christianity has never been in the *ideas*. The real difference with Jesus is that what he said about himself, and what he would do, He Actually DID!oOo oOo
Time on vacation to Think; the song sung by Aretha; thanks for Freedom (on the 6th of July) and how even the concept of real freedom can begin to open up people's lives to further growth...
Chicago!! What a town - major flood of walkers on the streets; Looking for food, rushed for time to get back to train -- Can't get any Uno Pizzaria or White Palace Diner food -- Boo / Hiss ! :(